Ernst Heinrich Roth GmbH & Co, KG Streichinstrumente Hans-Paulus-Str. 18 D-91088 Bubenreuth Tel: +49 (0) 91 31 2 25 10 Fax: +49 (0) 91 31 20 58 37 E-mail: e.h.roth-violins@t-online.de Web Site: -violins.de
Scherl And Roth Violin Serial Number
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I think the obsession with brands and serial numbers is misplaced in relation to 1920s Roth violins, and even the 1930s Markneukirchen instruments often don't have a brand - I'd be interested to know when the serial numbers started, but I associate it more with the pre-war tradey Roth instruments and all post-war productions.
Authenticity is worth quite a lot with EH Roths, I would be very wary of selling anything as a Roth unless I was 100% certain. Particularly in the US, where there's a veritable obsession with all the model & serial numbers.
I would say a good-sounding upper level EH Roth Guarnerius from 1960, labeled & branded with a serial number might be worth 5000, an "equivalent" German violin in identical condition with similar workmanship but no identity might be worth 2000 if you're lucky.
When it comes to EH Roth I have found buyers to be particularly concerned about brands and serial numbers, and often quite prepared to overlook great sounding instruments that didn't have the right markings.
Hello danitsui, Yes, it must be a Scherl & Roth as you cannot believe what it says on the inside! What probably happened is that some one took off the top, placed a fake label in it and branded the inside with a serial number to make it look like a 1962 E.H. Roth, model 1700, which it does appear to look like. What is surprising is that some one from Sao Paulo would be able to do such a good job of branding OT
The pictures aren't the best but I think your safe to call it a 60's Roth..with the original case to-boot! The brand, serial number, label and what I can make of the instrument seem right. I can't comment on the price other than to say you're likely to find it cheaper in some places and more expensive in others.
from my research a good condition 1962 1700 strad model would have a full retail value of roughly $3000 or slightly more, but you can find them much cheaper; my customer bought a 1972 1700 strad model for $400 on ebay but it needed another $250 in work; new fingerboard, bridge etc. i think the price is reasonable at $1000 if theres a money back guarantee, i dont see anything that screams, not roth, and the serial number and brand stamp look legit, however i couldnt be absolutely sure
its obviously well underpriced, but it is pretty close to their cheapest model, however even the cheapest model roth is better than most other factory violins, im sure jesse would sell it for 2 or 3 times more!! i think what this is is the 120-R model that retails new for about $4000US, and my catalogue gives a suggested retail of $5200, certainly i think a 1962 would be a better deal than a brand new one tone wise, but i could be wrong
August 27, 2016 at 04:49 PM It should have Ernest Heinrich Roth Markneukirchen and a serial number stamped in the wood above the label, if not it might be suspect. Unless its before about 1925, it might not have a serial number and stamp.
August 27, 2016 at 07:31 PM You can contact Roth in Germany, they have a website and are still in business, for a small fee or even for free they will verify if you send pictures if your violin was genuine and if there is a serial number, what year it was made.
Many of these instruments were made in assembly line factories in Germany and France; they could be sold at much lower prices than instruments which were hand-made by a single craftsman. These instruments were mostly made to be exported and as such they were deemed as Trade Instruments. There were also many catalogs that were printed and sent to American dealers to order different grades of these copies at varying prices; they could also buy in bulk. One French company had a models that were available by the piece, by the dozen or by 100. This is a link to a page from a catalog from the 1920's showing a few of the different copies available. During the period from 1880-1920 it is estimated that just from the town of Markneukirchen Germany as many as 7 million bowed string instrument were exported. In Mirecourt France, one firm is known to have produced more than 150,000 instruments in just one year and employed over 1000 violin makers in their factory. A great number of these were simply labeled with the model and not the actual firm that made it.
Serial numbers - Serial numbers weren't typically used in violins until the mid-1900's and even dates were only sometimes added to labels. Often times the same people that were making violins that were labeled with one name, were making other models for the same or different exporters, the same model might even be sold with two or more different labels to different exporters, maybe with just a different varnish. Companies also purchased the instruments unvarnished from many different small output makers, and then varnished them in-house so they would all have a similar look. Often times these labels weren't inserted until they arrived in the US (all that was required by import laws was a country of origin and possible the words - "Made In"- see below). Serial numbers in violins also in general denoted lower quality as it implied mass production rather than being hand made in the cottage industry like many violins were made. A few makers did add dates and/or serial numbers, but they were generally the top tier ones such as Roth. Many times you will find that the dates added were not correct anyway as the maker predated the instruments by a few decades or just used the same pre-printed labels for many years. Some wholesalers in the US did include serial numbers starting somewhat earlier than the 1950's. As they were selling directly to the dealers, the instruments were always known exactly what they were. Typically violins were made to denote a model and the actual maker was of secondary importance. So, if your violin has a serial number, it is almost certainly a post-1900 or even 1950 instrument.
After Albert's death, his son Ernst Heinrich Roth III, having learned the violin-making trade at the technical college in Bubenreuth from 1953 to 1955 and been awarded the master craftsman's certificate in 1961, was in charge of the management. Business expanded and new markets were developed in the Far East. Since 1985 Wilhelm Roth, the son of Ernst Heinrich III, has been active in the company, having trained at the renowned violin-making college in Mittenwald. At the moment the Ernst Heinrich Roth company is managed by Ernst Heinrich Roth III and Wilhelm Roth. A branch office in Markneukirchen represents the company in the town where it originated. In addition to producing new instruments, the company can authenticate vintage Ernst Heinrich Roth instruments from their company records (www.roth-violins.de).
Note: The first name is sometimes mistakenly read as 'Erush'. It is written in old German running writing and is definitely meant to be 'Ernst'. The word 'Germany' is also often printed on the label in purple or black ink. In addition to the label, there is usually an oval-shaped brand stamp inside the instrument reading: Ernst Heinrich Roth / Markneukirchen, followed by a serial number. 2ff7e9595c
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